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Published Oct 21, 21
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Well, thank you extremely much. I want to provide you all a break for a minute as well as count on Mr. Swartz. You've been extremely patient, the 3 of you. I value that significantly. Normally, we would certainly have had 2 panels, however we really did not know exactly how the Senate would certainly be running today, so in an effort to make certain we survived all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your statement and your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda additionally punctures bank secrecy and supplies a device for us getting the details we require. There have actually been some shared legal help treaties that have stipulations relevant straight to sharing bank documents or various other financial information.

That was a provision that was prepared and also adopted in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, stipulation's possible for the requesting party asking for event information as info whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for nation in the case of the E.U., one of the requested member statesParticipant After that, the demand, if there is an identification of an account, have to be complied with up via a common common legal assistance treaty.

As well as when it come to Bermuda, our record of cooperation has actually been excellent. We believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of documents, including financial institution documents, is such that we are positive that the provisions included in this shared lawful assistance treaty, which do require participation on the manufacturing of documents, will certainly be adequate to guarantee that we acquire the records we require for our monetary examinations as well as various other investigations.

A few other MLATs also allow for immediate, non-written kind demands to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it should be in written form. Any kind of reason that that stipulation was not consisted of in this agreement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Mutual Legal Help Treaty does require requests in written type, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was adequate that, in this case, when it come to Bermuda, we would certainly have the ability to obtain prompt reactions to our demands and likewise offer such responses to Bermuda's requests, especially because we have a practice already developed that will proceed, we believe, under the treaty of having the ability to convey those demands via email or through fax.

Senator Cardin. So was this, basically, a choice made by U.S. arbitrators, that it was not essential, recognizing exactly how we can quickly get faxes and e-mails sent out? Is that fair enough to claim, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can help on that one? Senator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that because they intended to see to it that the requests were clear as well as in an extra official method. In the negotiations, it additionally ended up being clear that they approved that such request could be made by fax or by e-mail. So the genuine issue they were worried about was not discovering a quick means to make a request, but really simply taking dental demands off the table.

We're positive that we have actually obtained the methods in location that we can make immediate requests of them in a means that will be effective. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might add, as a matter of fact, while it is an advantage to be able to make dental requests, in technique, it's extremely unusual that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any comments on the bank records concern? Mr. Johnson.

The difference in between having the ability to do a dental demand or being able to utilize one of these other extremely fast methods, we believe, is not consequential. Legislator Cardin. There have actually been some issues raised concerning the competence of Bermuda law with regard to forfeitures of profits as well as instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Legal Help Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to give aid to the United States in procedures relating to loss of earnings and instrumentalities of criminal offense, to the level allowed by the regulation of Bermuda.

We've had 2 examples of effective ask for restraint and also loss of assets. Both circumstances were a success as well as we had the ability to obtain the funds. As a general matter, aid is available under the regulations of Bermuda, as well as I do think that is essential to stress, when it come to freezing, taking, and restraining properties, consisting of for issues associating with terrorism and also terrorism funding.

However it should be noted that forfeit help is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's residential regulation. With regard to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not waive a particular agency of nondrug offenses, since that power does not exist locally. Once more, that's limited to agencies in nondrug violation instances.

Legislator Cardin. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny participation in capital situations.

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Are we prevented as a result of that or is there a method in which we are able to work together under this treaty, even in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we think and also we hope we still would certainly be able to comply.

We have that experience with other countries that have put similar analyses on the common lawful assistance responsibilities, as well as we have actually been able to function out setups in a number of cases that allow us to get proof or go over whether the proof is considerable enough to go onward with some kind of more steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I could simply contribute to that, among the factors this treaty took as lengthy it did to discuss and wrap up is because it was necessary to us to make certain that there had not been an express constraint on assistance in funding situations in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. And that method we think that helps keep the principle that is essential to us, that such participation must be available, irrespective of the type of instance. And we believe this has actually also substantiated with some various other nations, where despite comparable concerns regarding participation in funding situations, they have, for instance, had the ability to supply help to the nonpenalty stage of a trial or another event investigation.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to reject participation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for resources penalty? Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give assistance in situations that are contrary to public policy or their vital rate of interests, and also they have told us that they translate that to enable them, in fatality fine instances, to work out that.

Senator Cardin. I understand that. I simply wished to make it clear that they would certainly not be an offense of the treaty. We comprehend their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending below that we required their assistance, where, plainly, the district attorneys were looking for the death sentence, Bermuda could decide not to comply under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I can say, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would require, because this would certainly be a denial under Post 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be consultations with the United States, prior to that rejection could go onward. And also I think that's an important facet of the arrangement that Mr.

Rather than having a specific provision, this is just one of a set of conditions under which aid may be denied after examination, as well as, amongst other things, that there have to be consideration regarding whether assistance can be given, subject to such problems as the asked for nation considers needed. And our experience because regard has been that we frequently can locate appropriate guarantees to permit proof to be created, at the very least for initial assessment of the relevance of evidence in the case overall.

And I assume that would certainly be handy for us to have that info in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest work here, considering that this arrangement was formerly approved by this committee. As I said in my opening, we approved it also late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any type of significant adjustments in our investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen given that last November is an increase in United States financial investment in Rwanda, as well as I can provide you a couple of instances.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to assist in the nation's growing friendliness industry. I would certainly state that, provided this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is essential that the protections be afforded for them.

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You also discussed the truth that the United States is exploring various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have 5 existing reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us other countries that the United States has shown rate of interest in negotiating treaties?



I believe that finishes the questioning. I do appreciate your perseverance with the board and also thank you very much for your testament today.

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Solution. As laid out below, we would love to supply updated information on reported UNITED STATE financial investment activity in Rwanda. Other than these updates, the answers provided by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress stay accurate. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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As well as I believe that would certainly be valuable for us to have that details in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We 'd rejoice to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest task below, considering that this arrangement was previously authorized by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we authorized it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any type of substantial adjustments in our investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? What we have seen since last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can give you a few examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant resort in Kigali. And also, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the country's expanding hospitality industry. I would state that, provided this pattern of enhanced financial investment, that it is essential that the protections be afforded for them.

You additionally mentioned the reality that the United States is discovering various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I believe we have five present reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has shown rate of interest in bargaining treaties?

I think that completes the examining. We might have some additional questions for the record. As you recognize, the document continues to be open for 24 hours, so you get a break. That's a rather fast turn-around time for this board. I do value your patience with the board and also thank you extremely a lot for your testament today.

Response. As established out listed below, we would such as to supply upgraded details on reported UNITED STATE investment task in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the answers given by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress stay exact. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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